nb: there’s a great reddit user’s counterpoint at the bottom. Spirited, and for the record.
I’ve spoken about my musical progression from tiny tot to a DJ w/ 16 years of a residency under his belt. But something fascinating happened today that I really had never dived deep into, and I’m posting it here as a historic record of the 1980’s and 1990’s punk, ska, and ska-core scene, notably what happened to the unbelievably important and amazing NYC Moon Ska Record Label.
I’ll try to be brief (editor’s note- he was not brief, but because of history, I’ll allow it), but my music history was like –> classical & blues (dad influence), then The Monkees, David Bowie, Prince (sis influence), and all the peripheral music that comes with it. But, my own path of discovery was in SF in the late 80s, I was about 13 or 14, and I easily found punk and pre-skacore like Operation Ivy, which got me into both bluebeat and 3rd wave in NYC and England, etc. It was my “scene”, until maybe 1993 or so, when i started listening to more of The Clash, and found out they were influenced by the West Indian Immigration movement and traditional Jamaican music, and then I just deep dived into Rocksteady and Traditional ska, and pretty much bailed on the 3rd wave seen. I never thought to ask why.
I’m a DJ with a 16 year residency in SF, and I often play and mix traditional ska or rocksteady, ragga, dub, dancehall, and more, but I never touch 3rd wave….
The 3rd wave scene 1985-1994 was a CRAZY decade of community and respect. Especially with Dead Kennedys an Op Ivy out here in the Bay, it really ran out the cynical nonsense of corporate hair bands and punk being co-opted by heavy metal. That **destroyed** the punk scene pretty good for awhile (DKs “Chickenshit Conformist” masterfully addresses this, lyrics at bottom of post), and it really broke up some bands and community. Frankly, it was awful to watch and awful to be part of. And I am not claiming some big whig in the scene. I was a young suburban poseur in punk, goth, skateboarding, & almost everything, but both punk and ska really was a huge part of my life and the first real community I was part of and embraced by. Hey, at the bottom at least I have receipts! Gilman 924 was such an awesome place.
WELLlllllll….. ska and ska-core really had this DIY punk community aesthetic that was both completely accessible, welcoming, inclusive, and wholesome (also like the early 90s raves. Just unreal accessibility for all). It was a dream, and it was amazing to go to shows where people looked after you, knew you, etc. Lots of great friendships and romances, etc. Also, the East Bay Punk scene picked up the prior punk slack, and they burgeoned into one of the most important producers of musical talent for decades. The documentary “Turn It Around, the Story of East Bay Punk” is a blistering joy, and the cameos and stories are not to be missed.
Then it all changed…. And not to be too pointed, that was when Reel Big Fish arrived.
At this point in Denver/Boulder, and to my scene, all of us pretentious moon ska big brass band loving rude boy wannabes, Reel Big Fish was the defining moment that larger record labels caught on, and were crafting their money-making machine by exploiting the formula of quirky band mates and fast paced pop songs. RBG has a tiny label they immediately bailed on to go to the boy band machine owned by Sony, called Jive Records. These guys exploited hip-hop and boy bands for profit, and now they’re getting into ska-core? NOT AT ALL DISINGENUOUS GUYS.
I don’t spend energy on it, and I am sure they’re fine, and I’ve zero historic context because my entire relationship to them stopped in 1995, but I ducking hate them. They ruined everything. I didn’t like their music and that was still beside the point, but it really all rests on my irrational hatred of their cynical cash grab by having the label title their 2nd tour a “Farewell Tour” to get more people at the shows. I haven’t thought about this for years, but it literally is bringing back the trauma (LOL), and why I left the scene completely. And I had been into the zine community in Boulder and Denver, etc…. but I just bailed faster than a bat out of hell.
All that sadness of watching thirsty record labels suck up talent and break up bands from the punk era, co-opting the intent of punk into big ass hair bands with leather was awful, and still fresh in my brain. Then the labels start it again… find art, commodify it, exploit it, throw it out and move on. Seeing people more eager about being signed than playing the music, causing rifts in bands and with friendships because the intent of music making was changing and people has their own aspirational goals. It was sorta a Beatles moment in a lot of bands… and I would be lying if the prospect of making actual money is something to be down on. So, I will not hate on some young kids grinding out tours in a van of 10 people wondering if they might be able to sleep in a bed in a bus or afford to even commit to the lifestyle, but there was certainly a viral moment of injecting capitalism and commodification into an art form that had pretty well been left alone.
What happened in the mid 90s to ska is what happened to punk in the 80s and I wasn’t going to go through it again or be part of it as a fan. I know it’s ideological and naive to suggest music isn’t a money business, but that’s another whole conversation about art. But labels obviously didn’t give a damn about Moon Ska’s existence, and started plucking talent, breaking up the community, rushing new bands into the market. The tone and sound of both the music and scene was changing like an iron curtain falling.
Then the genie was out of the bottle, and ska was in all the car commercials. Then skacore kind of gobbled up the community of kindness into a more punky pit aesthetic, as well. I don’t mind, just not my thing. I’d grown up with Primus too, so I was so pitted, man, so pitted. LOL
But all this ramble might explain what was happening over at Moon Ska in regards to ska-core, because in my experience it got a little toxic. The SHARPS were starting to act out a bit more in early SJW self-righteousness, which was fine, but concerts started feeling less safe (we also had a SJW mod crew that were wild… they’d go to GWAR shows just to make sure to put the hammer down on any creeps misbehaving, etc. SJW has been here for some time lol), and my two cents is that ska-core was viewed less as a money maker by Moon Ska than something both toxic and changing the scene. At the time, *they* made the rules, and probably didn’t think that would stop, wanting to focus more on a retro trad 3rd wave homage to 1st wave. Definitely some myopia on their part, but there was a decade of them just being everything.
Therefore, the double whammy of having talent stolen from you by labels that are just looking to exploit young kids, while Moon Ska also couldn’t prepare for the market forces changing their scene aesthetic into what it became. I was out of the scene since 1995, but I cannot help but notice it all went to ska-core, and the talented trad 90s ska bands all became dub, groove, funk, or afrobeat bands… Or just grew out of it.
But this walk down memory lane was like therapy, because I’d never known why I do not and can not listen to 3rd wave ska… because it depresses me and reminds me of something I loved very, very much being taken from me. Existence is pretty freaking weird. Hopefully all this has me digging back into records I’ve carried around with me for 25 years. =)
924 Gilman card!! =)
CHICKENSHIT CONFORMIST, 1985, Dead Kennedys. Written by Jello Biafra
Punk’s not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don’t matter, it’s who you know
If the music’s gotten boring
It’s because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same
Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
‘Til all that’s left Is just a meaningless fad
Hardcore formulas are dogshit
Change and caring are what’s real
Is this a state of mind
Or just another label
The joy and hope of an alternative
Have become its own cliche
A hairstyle’s not a lifestyle
Imagine Sid Vicious at 35
Who needs a scene
Scared to love and to feel
Judging everything
By loud fast rules appeal
Who played last night?
“I don’t know, I forgot.
But diving off the stage Was a lot of fun.
[Chorus:]
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Make the same old mistakes
Again and again,
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents
What’s ripped us apart even more than drugs
Are the thieves and the goddamn liars
Flipping people off when they share their stuff
When someone falls are there any friends?
Harder core than thou for a year or two
Then it’s time to get a real job
Others stay home, it’s no fun to go out
When the gigs are wrecked by gangs and thugs
When the thugs form bands, look who gets record deals
From New York metal labels looking to scam
Who sign the most racist queerbashing bands they can find
To make a buck revving kids up for war
Walk tall, act small
Only as tough as gang approval
Unity is bullshit
When it’s under someone’s fat boot
Where’s the common cause
Too many factions
Safely sulk in their shells
Agree with us on everything
Or we won’t help with anythng
That kind of attitude
Just makes a split grow wider
Guess who’s laughing while the world explodes
When we’re all crybabies
Who fight best among ouselves
[Chorus]
That farty old rock and roll attitude’s back
“It’s competition, man, we want to break big.”
Who needs friends when the money’s good
That’s right, the ’70s are back.
Cock-rock metal’s like a bad laxative
It just don’t move me, ya know?
The music’s OK when there’s more ideas than solos
Do we rally need the attitude too?
Shedding thin skin too quickly
As a fan it disappoints me
Same old stupid sexist lyrics
Or is Satan all you can think of?
Crossover is just another word
For lack of ideas
Maybe what we need
Are more trolls under the bridge
Will the metalheads finally learn something-
Or will the punks throw away their education?
No one’s ever the best
Once they believe their own press
“Maturing” don’t mean rehashing
Mistakes of the past
[Chorus]
The more things change
The more they stay the same
We can’t grow
When we won’t criticize ourselves
The ’60s weren’t all failure
It’s the ’70s that stunk
As the clock ticks we dig the same hole
Music scenes ain’t real life
They won’t get rid of the bomb
Won’t eliminate rape
Or bring down the banks
Any kind of real change
Takes more time and work
Than changing channels on a TV set
[Chorus]
VALID REDDIT COUNTERPOINT. A user in the scene sort of torched an aspect of this:
Ha, well, I ended up ranting for far too long and hit most the points. The only point I think I skipped over was the concept that the majors were scooping up bands and causing division in the scene. I can’t speak for SoCal as I only ever spent time there after the crash, but in general that rings false to me. Let’s be honest, how many bands got signed? RBF, LTJ, Save Ferris, MMB, (you can’t really count No Doubt as part of this, they got signed in 1991). I guess you could say Goldfinger, but they were a bullshit pop punk band that played a little ska because it was popular. (Side note, since I’m ranting. I booked a lot of touring bands in that era, and Goldfinger stand out as far and away as the biggest pricks I worked with. This was right before (or maybe right after?) they put out their first album. No one knew who the fuck they were and they acted like entitled rich assholes. We booked them as a favor to their agent and they treated everyone at the venue and the other bands like we should be greeting royalty.)
Moon failing had nothing to do with “big labels” taking their talent. The only bands that moved from Moon to a big label moved to Hellcat, which I’m guessing he’s not talking about since he’s a Gilman acolyte. Moon made some terrible business choices. They were happy to flood the market with their CDs without realizing they’d be on the hook for them when they didn’t sell coupled with having Noah embezzle tens of thousands of dollars and putting money into renting a NYC storefront. Buck had the chance to sell the label, for a seven digit sum, to Mercury and he declined. I can respect his morals there, but that was a terrible business choice.
The division between the ska-punk and trad scene was already pretty evident by 1997, at the peak of the ska boom. The two scenes have existed separately without much issue (except on message boards) since then. The trad scene never died, we’ve been here the whole time. It thrived in different parts of the world at different points. I’d say musicially the trad scene has gone from strength to strength for the past 20 years. It’s far more talented, diverse, and large than ever.
Also, I should point out that Moon was never a “trad” label. Sure they had Hepcat’s first album. The Scofflaws. Things here and there, but they had plenty of ska-rock, funk-ska, and ska-punk too. Moon put out to a lot of stuff. (They had like 100 albums. Lots of them are awful!)
You know who they never had? Reel Big Fish. RBF put out their first CD themselves, then signed. And you know what? That album on the major label? It’s really good! It’s poppy. It’s fun. It’s catchy. They deserved their success. Is it their fault the scene imploded? No, not really. It was going to happen, there wasn’t enough talent in the scene to sustain that level of success. Did other bands deserve to get big? Certainly, but that’s true with every genre. I think The Slackers are the best band in America in the past 35 years. I think they deserved all the fame that Vampire Weekend got. But that’s not how it panned out. And that’s okay.
That’s about it for bands that got signed. Less than 10 bands out of thousands. Most bands I knew weren’t jealous or itching to get signed. They were doing their thing. Shows got big for a few years, touring got a little nicer then the scene cratered. Tours got harder, kids grew up and moved on to other things. For those of us who stuck around, the scene in the 00s was smaller, sure, but honestly not any smaller than it was in ‘91 or ‘92. The plus side was that there was more networking available. Back in the late 80s early 90s it was tough for scenes and bands to have a national network of contacts. The boom and the internet helped that and we stopped having disparate regional scenes and started a more cohesive national one. That is a whole other can of worms we could get into, but in general I’ll push back on the thought that there was nothing of value happening after the crash.